Pinto Upgrade

[greenwoo]

good luck buddy, 7 mths....we'll be seeing you by Jan won't we?

Zetec makes obvious sense, given the low price for a new engine, however, agree with Russ's sentiments - a Dura would be cheaper pound for pound in the longer term. The added upfront cost - a new Dura is about 2.5x the price of the zetec, seems off putting, but the other bits required will be similar i'd imagine for either: alternators, ecu/induction,exhaust etc - bonus of teh Duratec would be 15-20bhp extra out of the box, plus a weight saving and the cam change in future i think takes them into the 210 range. Whereas the Zetec will presumably cost an extra set of cams and a remap to equal what teh duratec has as standard.....ie/ an extra £300+ map, + 600 cams + fitting.....all of a sudden the gap isn't that wide! ( albeit larger upfront cost like for like - ie/ new versus new).

anyway, hurry up and get it done, any remodeling required? grinder at the ready!

[Phil N]

Well when I first made the decision to go for it I planned to gather all the bits throughout the next year or so and then do it over winter 2015/16....

I get what you all say about the duratec and agree but it isn't purely a power exercise, reliability plus some additional power is my aim.

What concerns me with buying a used engine is you don't know what it's been up to in it's previous life, yes there is an option of a new duratec but hey I need to draw the line somewhere... there's only so many receipts I can hide from the Mrs! Don't get me wrong all your comments have made me (re)reconsider but my theory is that I will be happy with the initial power gain and then an extra grand in year or so for cams and map is a way of me getting me close to the magic 200- I know you can never get enough power but I think I'd be happy with that... I'm sure I'll be reminded of this comment when I'm trying to get over 300bhp in years to come

Incidentally, if anyone has any contacts or recommendations for either engine please pipe up now instead of waiting until I post a picture of a crate in my garage, raceline & scottish kit car seem to be around about the best I've found for a new black top around £830-£850, skc are trying to come up with a deal which will include a raceline sump and arp con rod bolts fitted.

[greenwoo]

totally get your thinking Phil.....
can't think of anywhere else to hunt a cheapie Zetec.....unless someone will do a deal for pound notes? Get Tony to negotiate for you - i swear he haggled about getting a brekkie discount this morning .....on the basis that he was using his own mug and they wouldnt have to wash one of theirs up......its true i tell ya

[b33fy]

Phil, just caught this thread, all the best with the engine swap.. As you know I've gone Duratec, for most of all the reasons stated here. The original plan was to swap the cams out and put some bodies on it with an aftermarket ecu. Good for around 200-210bhp all day long with no grief... If you blow it up grab another £2-£400 lump off the bay swap all the bits and bobs your mothers brother.

A duratec would give you a better starting point and good base to get more if you wanted ie changing internals, rods high compression pistions etc. though not essential at 200bhp. As Mark states 200+bhp is that much easier with a duratec.

All the other bits you mention you would change anyhow on either a zetec or duratec, sump, water rail etc. Duratec to Type 9 conversion is around £250 including vodka and tonic.. One of the best sites (imo) is Retro ford who support RWD conversions for both engines.

http://www.retro-ford.co.uk/shop/catalog/duratec?page=2

I think you mentioned raceline, superb products, high end price. One last thing, I would stick to car bodies, a personal thing though refered to by others bike bodies are ok for high revving bikes and are rumoured to be difficult to sort for low throttle openings for lower revving car engines. By the time you mess about converting them for the car engine cast saving is negligable. (Jenvey do some direct to head bodies which as a bonus save the cost of a manifold (stocked by retroford)

Anyway that's enough ramblings, again all the best with the swap, anything I can do to assist give me a shout.

Mike

Edited to add... Burtons do a complete brand new duratec for £2000. I would enquire at a ford dealer for a price, you may be plesantly surprised and you can usually get 5-10% off if your face fits.

[Phil N]

£2k + £250 for bell housing is a f@&k load of money though! Then it's a case of going used. Neither of which are part of the plan...

If it was 1.5 times the price then I could, maybe, see some logic but 2.5 times!?!

Mike, I have read this about the bike throttle bodies but I have also read they are fine, they seem to be cheaper than the jenveys and give more power.. Maybe The Tonys can give their view?

[ChrisL]

personally I'd never go for a new engine, treat them as a commodity unit, so if one goes bang swap in another. Also means you won't feel precious about the engine, and just thrash the pants off it, without always thinking "gotta be careful it'll be £800 for a new one". Used Duratec is the way to go. Modern engines are pretty bomb proof anyway. If I had new duratec money I'd go used s2000

[Tony B]

Phil, when I had the Zetec I had SRAD GSXR1300 throttle bodies and they were difficult to sort out at low revs, I got them right in the end but they dont give you the smoothness of Jenveys - the GSXR ones have a throttle control at one end and a bar going through all 4 bodies so what happened with mine was the furthest body away from the throttle spline never shut/opened at precisely the same time as the first.

Worth having a word with DanST because there are other bike bodies with centre controls.

I think Bike bodies sound better though, Rob always used to say that my Zetec intake sounded great, which you dont get with Jenveys.

I always wanted Jenveys, but bike ones can be sorted - eventually - and they are a fraction of the price, I picked up my GSXR ones from eBay for £90 and just got a custome manifold made, the advantage of the GSXR ones is they are already equally spaced wheras others need respacing to fit the Zetec/Dura head

[russtik]

I think Bike bodies sound better though, Rob always used to say that my Zetec intake sounded great, which you dont get with Jenveys.

What My Jenveys on my Avon sounded great, I really miss them. You had to be in the driving seat though to appreciate them otherwise you couldn't hear them for the incredibly loud exhaust

[Fury1630]

the GSXR ones have a throttle control at one end and a bar going through all 4 bodies so what happened with mine was the furthest body away from the throttle spline never shut/opened at precisely the same time as the first.

I got 750 GSXR bodies & a manifold for £300, on the advice of road & track (or is it track & road?) I looked at the linkage Tony B notes, the cable's at one end & the throttle pot is at the other & yes each body drives the next via a pair of springs, I swapped the springs for a nut & bolt so they are adjustble, set them up with a carb balancer & they've been fine, no issues at all. The only thing was a hesitation when hitting the throttle hard from low revs which I've cured by making the pressure & return lines the same dia (return was smaller).

[Tony B]

the GSXR ones have a throttle control at one end and a bar going through all 4 bodies so what happened with mine was the furthest body away from the throttle spline never shut/opened at precisely the same time as the first.

I got 750 GSXR bodies & a manifold for £300, on the advice of road & track (or is it track & road?) I looked at the linkage Tony B notes, the cable's at one end & the throttle pot is at the other & yes each body drives the next via a pair of springs, I swapped the springs for a nut & bolt so they are adjustble, set them up with a carb balancer & they've been fine, no issues at all. The only thing was a hesitation when hitting the throttle hard from low revs which I've cured by making the pressure & return lines the same dia (return was smaller).

That sounds a perfect mod actually, if I remember them correctly the "bit of metal" that the springs attach to inbetween each body is spaced, so im assuming you had to make a 'plate' to go between them to attach a nut and bolt - that would certainly make them rigid and so they should all open/shut together. I had a variety of springs on mine pulling them in all directions!!

Personally, although Jenveys look nicer, I would rather spend £300 on a set of bike bodies and manifold rather than £2k on Jenveys (and it will be £2k by the time youve got the manifold, fuel rail etc etc etc) - and when they are set up correctly they work perfectly well and sound great!